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 Eiri, are you actually pro-life?

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xwoman74



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PostSubject: Re: Eiri, are you actually pro-life?   Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:40 pm

EiriForLife wrote:
Instead of saying zygote/embryo/fetus or making up new acronyms (zef), I just say baby, since that is what the unborn is.

That is your opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. Medically, it is a z/e/f. Emotional manipulation does nothing for your cause.

EiriForLife wrote:
You didn't really think about it, you're just spouting pro-choice rhetoric.

No, I am not. It isn't my body or my decision. I don't have to live with it. She would.

EiriForLife wrote:
I used to be like that... then I decided to have an opinion of my own and not be a zombie. I decided "you know what, abortion kills a human being. That's not right."

Then that is your choice. Gotta love the pro life catch phrase that anyone with a pro choice position is a zombie. Guess what? Some of us actually believe in the cause and the right a woman has to control her organs.

EiriForLife wrote:
If you worked in educuation you would realise that "repricussion" does not mean punishment.

When you want to force a woman to gestate against her will it is.

EiriForLife wrote:
I work with disabled children. Been for years. If you worked in "educuation", you would know how to spell.

I don't want women to be "punished for having sex" as pro-choice loves to say it. But if I cut my hand and ignore it for 4 weeks and develop a severe infection and keep ignoring it, eventually they may have to remove my hand. Are they punishing me? No; it's simply the result of me ignoring the wound.

But would they refuse to treat you is the more appropriate question. No, they wouldn't.

EiriForLife wrote:
Many problems can be fixed with little or no problems early on. That's early-term D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical abortion etc. But if you wait too long, sometimes, things cannot be fixed in the same way, and sometimes they can't be fixed at all and you just have to deal with what happens. It's not punishment, it's just nature. It's the inevitable outcome.

And if the woman can't find someone to do a late term abortion, then that is something she will have to deal with. Again, not me or you.
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xwoman74



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PostSubject: Re: Eiri, are you actually pro-life?   Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:45 pm

EiriForLife wrote:
How do I not care about the woman?

You would force her to risk her life for a pregnancy against her will.

EiriForLife wrote:
There are two people to care about during a pregnancy, not just the woman.

Actually, there is only one person. Person is a legal term and given at birth.

EiriForLife wrote:
I want the solution that is safest for BOTH of them, and in many cases that choice is birth. If the woman is going to be harmed then of course she should get a D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical abortion etc. But it is not her choice to kill her own child without a good reason. That child is alive and has a right to life.

No one has the right to life. Otherwise death would be illegal in any form. And since you can't guarntee a healthy safe pregnancy, who are you to decide what woman's life is worth risking?

EiriForLife wrote:
If the woman develops a life-threatening condition she should be allowed to get a D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical abortion etc.

And if she dies during or after death? Oh, too bad for her...

EiriForLife wrote:
I am simply opposed to D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical abortion etc with healthy mothers and healthy babies.

Because you know when something will go wrong, right? @@

EiriForLife wrote:
No ME. A doctor. You might have missed this, but we were pretending I was the hypothetical doctor at a hypothetical women's clinic that provided D&Cs or D&Es or suction aspirations or medical abortions etc.

And doctor's miss things too. Women die in childbirth all the time. Many due to doctor's neglect. But those lives are expendable for the little babbbbieeeeeeeesssssss!!!!1
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Erulissė



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PostSubject: Re: Eiri, are you actually pro-life?   Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:02 pm

EiriForLife wrote:


If you worked in educuation you would realise that "repricussion" does not mean punishment. I don't want women to be "punished for having sex" as pro-choice loves to say it. But if I cut my hand and ignore it for 4 weeks and develop a severe infection and keep ignoring it, eventually they may have to remove my hand. Are they punishing me? No; it's simply the result of me ignoring the wound.

Many problems can be fixed with little or no problems early on. That's early-term D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical abortion etc. But if you wait too long, sometimes, things cannot be fixed in the same way, and sometimes they can't be fixed at all and you just have to deal with what happens. It's not punishment, it's just nature. It's the inevitable outcome.

i wouldn't want to be the one to tell themother carrying an encephaltic baby that she had to give birth to it to watch it die. that's such a choice that should be up to her.

EiriForLife wrote:


By the way, every procedure you undergo IS included on your records.

maybe in military systems, but in public there isn't a magical med record database and that is why you have to fill out new information and forms when you change doctors. just so you know, but abortion doesn't need to be in the med record ifthere is no relevance for it, which there isn't unless you are visiting an obgyn.


Quote :

Okay, why don't you understand the birth control analogy? Birth control is an option, and currently, pregnancy is an option. You are saying abortion should stay legal because SOME women experience deadly/debilitating effects from being pregnant. Well, SOME women experience deadly/debilitating effects from being on birth control. Should we outlaw birth control?

that's exactly why abortion should stay legal. to keep it safe and regulated as possible. you're not one of the prolifers who thinkwomen's lives are so expendable that you would outlaw abortion because 'some' women could die, are you?

Quote :
Giving birth is risky, but another human being is born. Abortion is risky, and another human being is killed. Birth is much safer than its ever been, ensuring life for both mother and child. Abortion guarantees death

you can take the risk ifyou want, but i will decide for myself. you don't even know me, why doyou feel like you can tell me what i can or cannot risk?
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PostSubject: Re: Eiri, are you actually pro-life?   Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:09 pm

EiriForLife wrote:
futureshock wrote:
I don't think they are "extremists" though, I think they are the heart of the pro-life movement in the u.s.
The heart of the pro-choice movement includes people who approve of abortion up until labor. I consider that extreme, too.

Wrong.

The heart of the pro-choice movement is keeping Roe v. Wade from being overturned. END OF STORY.

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xwoman74



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PostSubject: Re: Eiri, are you actually pro-life?   Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:15 pm

EiriForLife wrote:
By the way, if you're going to demand I "use the correct term" then I'd better not see you ever say just "abortion" when what you really mean is D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical abortion etc.

I typically refer to it as a medical abortion or spontaneous. I don't need to emotionally manipulate people into my version.
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EiriForLife



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PostSubject: Re: Eiri, are you actually pro-life?   Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:59 pm

xwoman74 wrote:
EiriForLife wrote:
Instead of saying zygote/embryo/fetus or making up new acronyms (zef), I just say baby, since that is what the unborn is.

That is your opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. Medically, it is a z/e/f. Emotional manipulation does nothing for your cause.
I swear to you I am not doing it to be emotionally manipulative. Personally, I have always considered "zef" to be emotionally manipulative because it dehumanizes the unborn. I made the decision when I was pro-choice to call it a baby for the simple fact that I think some pro-choicers really need to be reminded it is an actual unborn child and not a parasitic rapist monster.

Quote :
EiriForLife wrote:
You didn't really think about it, you're just spouting pro-choice rhetoric.

No, I am not. It isn't my body or my decision. I don't have to live with it. She would.
Don't you think you should advise someone against doing something you think would cause them physical or emotional trauma? I wouldn't tell my best friend "Jump of the bridge if you want, it's your choice". I'd do all I could to prevent her from doing it! I advise my friends not to smoke, and to drink responsibly, to avoid drunk driving. It's because I care about them. Sure, all of those things are their choice and most of those things are legal, but that doesn't make them healthy choices.

Quote :
EiriForLife wrote:
I used to be like that... then I decided to have an opinion of my own and not be a zombie. I decided "you know what, abortion kills a human being. That's not right."

Then that is your choice. Gotta love the pro life catch phrase that anyone with a pro choice position is a zombie. Guess what? Some of us actually believe in the cause and the right a woman has to control her organs.
I did too, until I realised that the "zef" has a body too, it has organs too, and it has a right to life. It DEFINITELY has a right to life the moment it reaches viability. I have never been and never will be pro-elective-late-term D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical etc.

Quote :
EiriForLife wrote:
If you worked in educuation you would realise that "repricussion" does not mean punishment.

When you want to force a woman to gestate against her will it is.
I want to save a life. If you call that forcing, go for it. But you wouldn't call it forcing if the child was born. By the way, typos happen.

Quote :
EiriForLife wrote:

I don't want women to be "punished for having sex" as pro-choice loves to say it. But if I cut my hand and ignore it for 4 weeks and develop a severe infection and keep ignoring it, eventually they may have to remove my hand. Are they punishing me? No; it's simply the result of me ignoring the wound.

But would they refuse to treat you is the more appropriate question. No, they wouldn't.
Treatment does not involve the death of a child. Why isn't the doctor treating the child with the same respect? Instead of treating it like a human being, he treats it like a cancer. But that's a lie.

Quote :

And if the woman can't find someone to do a late term abortion, then that is something she will have to deal with. Again, not me or you.

I'M SORRY, AN "ABORTION"? I CAN'T POSSIBLE HAVE A CLUE WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT! You should ALWAYS use the correct terms!!!!!!! D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical etc!
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EiriForLife



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PostSubject: Re: Eiri, are you actually pro-life?   Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:00 pm

xwoman74 wrote:
EiriForLife wrote:
By the way, if you're going to demand I "use the correct term" then I'd better not see you ever say just "abortion" when what you really mean is D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical abortion etc.

I typically refer to it as a medical abortion or spontaneous. I don't need to emotionally manipulate people into my version.
I typically refer to it as an abortion. I can't see how that's emotionally manipulative. That's right, you started this particular argument over me calling an abortion... AN ABORTION.
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EiriForLife



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PostSubject: Re: Eiri, are you actually pro-life?   Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:01 pm

futureshock wrote:
EiriForLife wrote:
futureshock wrote:
I don't think they are "extremists" though, I think they are the heart of the pro-life movement in the u.s.
The heart of the pro-choice movement includes people who approve of abortion up until labor. I consider that extreme, too.

Wrong.

The heart of the pro-choice movement is keeping Roe v. Wade from being overturned. END OF STORY.
I have met extremists who disagree with you. My point was that if you actually think the extreme pro-lifers are the "core" of the movement, then you need to realise that they think pro-choice extremists are the core of pro-choice thought. It doesn't matter how true or false these claims are; this is what people really think.
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EiriForLife



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PostSubject: Re: Eiri, are you actually pro-life?   Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:07 pm

Erulissė wrote:
EiriForLife wrote:


If you worked in educuation you would realise that "repricussion" does not mean punishment. I don't want women to be "punished for having sex" as pro-choice loves to say it. But if I cut my hand and ignore it for 4 weeks and develop a severe infection and keep ignoring it, eventually they may have to remove my hand. Are they punishing me? No; it's simply the result of me ignoring the wound.

Many problems can be fixed with little or no problems early on. That's early-term D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical abortion etc. But if you wait too long, sometimes, things cannot be fixed in the same way, and sometimes they can't be fixed at all and you just have to deal with what happens. It's not punishment, it's just nature. It's the inevitable outcome.

i wouldn't want to be the one to tell themother carrying an encephaltic baby that she had to give birth to it to watch it die. that's such a choice that should be up to her.
That's an exception and you know it. We are talking about healthy mothers and healthy babies.

Quote :
EiriForLife wrote:


By the way, every procedure you undergo IS included on your records.

maybe in military systems, but in public there isn't a magical med record database and that is why you have to fill out new information and forms when you change doctors. just so you know, but abortion doesn't need to be in the med record ifthere is no relevance for it, which there isn't unless you are visiting an obgyn.
This just really boggles my mind... we REALLY need socialized health care O.o I feel rather frightened my civilian doctor is going to be clueless about my medical history... Then again I do have records in military hospitals so I can get those to a new doctor. I just think it's something so common sense that I really hadn't occurred to me that it isn't so.


Quote :
Quote :

Okay, why don't you understand the birth control analogy? Birth control is an option, and currently, pregnancy is an option. You are saying abortion should stay legal because SOME women experience deadly/debilitating effects from being pregnant. Well, SOME women experience deadly/debilitating effects from being on birth control. Should we outlaw birth control?

that's exactly why abortion should stay legal. to keep it safe and regulated as possible. you're not one of the prolifers who thinkwomen's lives are so expendable that you would outlaw abortion because 'some' women could die, are you?
I don't feel abortion is regulated enough. I hear horror stories all the time, and Dr. Tiller is just horrific. I wish right now for more regulation, not sudden illegalization. I know that's a stupid idea. And I thought you read some of my earlier posts and know that I am definitely for abortions to save the woman's life or in cases of lethal fetal deformity.

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Quote :
Giving birth is risky, but another human being is born. Abortion is risky, and another human being is killed. Birth is much safer than its ever been, ensuring life for both mother and child. Abortion guarantees death

you can take the risk ifyou want, but i will decide for myself. you don't even know me, why doyou feel like you can tell me what i can or cannot risk?
I can't, but an experienced doctor can.
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xwoman74



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PostSubject: Re: Eiri, are you actually pro-life?   Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:12 pm

EiriForLife wrote:
Personally, I have always considered "zef" to be emotionally manipulative because it dehumanizes the unborn.

It doesn't dehumanize anything. Medical facts are just that. FACTS.

EiriForLife wrote:
Sure, all of those things are their choice and most of those things are legal, but that doesn't make them healthy choices.

And at the end of the day, if she still wants to terminate a pregnany, that is her decision.

EiriForLife wrote:
I did too, until I realised that the "zef" has a body too, it has organs too, and it has a right to life.

Again, there is no such thing as a right to life. It is a legal concept. And it can be removed by the government at any moment.
And I never said a zef doesn't have a body. Just that it doesn't have a right to take over another person's body against that person's will.

EiriForLife wrote:
I want to save a life. If you call that forcing, go for it. But you wouldn't call it forcing if the child was born.

No, you are pro fetus.

EiriForLife wrote:
Treatment does not involve the death of a child.

Again, emotional babble does NOTHING for me. There is no child.

EiriForLife wrote:
Why isn't the doctor treating the child with the same respect? Instead of treating it like a human being, he treats it like a cancer. But that's a lie.

Where does a doctor say it is cancer? That again is the anti choice mentality you are brainwashed with. He is treating his patient, the WOMAN. Remember her? At least I can admit I put the woman first. You can't give equal rights over one body. Are you for forced organ donation as well? Guess what, Eiri? There is someone right now that needs a kidney. Let's force you to give one of yours. After all, they have the right to life, right?


Last edited by xwoman74 on Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Eiri, are you actually pro-life?   Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:14 pm

EiriForLife wrote:
I can't, but an experienced doctor can.

No, they can't. Doctor's are perfect. The only person that should make a medical decision for their body is the person themself.
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EiriForLife



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PostSubject: Re: Eiri, are you actually pro-life?   Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:16 pm

xwoman74 wrote:
EiriForLife wrote:
How do I not care about the woman?

You would force her to risk her life for a pregnancy against her will.
D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical etc risks her life AND kills her child. There are TWO people involved in a D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical etc. It's about the woman, but it's not ALL about her. The hilarious thing is, right now, I'm being called pro-choice on prolifeamerica.com because I'm trying to convince them to give a damn about the woman. Because I consider her an element in the equation, I'm suddenly a baby-killer. Isn't that funny!?

Quote :
EiriForLife wrote:
There are two people to care about during a pregnancy, not just the woman.

Actually, there is only one person. Person is a legal term and given at birth.
There are two human beings.

Quote :
EiriForLife wrote:
I want the solution that is safest for BOTH of them, and in many cases that choice is birth. If the woman is going to be harmed then of course she should get a D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical abortion etc. But it is not her choice to kill her own child without a good reason. That child is alive and has a right to life.

No one has the right to life.
I disagree and I think our constitution does too.

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Otherwise death would be illegal in any form.
Murder is.

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And since you can't guarntee a healthy safe pregnancy, who are you to decide what woman's life is worth risking?
You can't guarantee a healthy safe D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical etc, so who are you to decide what woman's life is worth risking? Plus, the child dies. D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical etc guarantees the death of a human being. Oh, and it's not ME, it's an experienced doctor who would make the call.

Quote :
EiriForLife wrote:
If the woman develops a life-threatening condition she should be allowed to get a D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical abortion etc.

And if she dies during or after death? Oh, too bad for her...
If I die after death, I'll be the first to let you know!! I have no idea what you're talking about by the way. I think it's just the wording; sorry.

Quote :
EiriForLife wrote:
I am simply opposed to D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical abortion etc with healthy mothers and healthy babies.

Because you know when something will go wrong, right? @@
Because you know when something will go wrong during a D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical etc, right?

Quote :
EiriForLife wrote:
No ME. A doctor. You might have missed this, but we were pretending I was the hypothetical doctor at a hypothetical women's clinic that provided D&Cs or D&Es or suction aspirations or medical abortions etc.

And doctor's miss things too. Women die in childbirth all the time. Many due to doctor's neglect. But those lives are expendable for the little babbbbieeeeeeeesssssss!!!!1

Doctors, not doctor's. The doctors don't own anything in your sentence. You want to get bitchy over a typo I made? You've been having problems with possessive and plural nouns this entire post.

I also find it hilarious that I use your exact same type sentence on the pro-life forum and got told I hate babies because I exaggerated the word "baby".

If you have complaints about the birthing process then why not protest birthing centers? You want reform? I want reform. You want to save lives? I want to save lives. I'd protest a birthing center with unusually high mortality rates.


Last edited by EiriForLife on Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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EiriForLife



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PostSubject: Re: Eiri, are you actually pro-life?   Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:19 pm

xwoman74 wrote:
EiriForLife wrote:
I can't, but an experienced doctor can.

No, they can't. Doctor's are perfect. The only person that should make a medical decision for their body is the person themself.

Doctors in the plural, not possessive (doctor's). Also, themself is not a word either. DO you REALLY want to go down this road?

I think a doctor should heavily advise the woman on the safest choice for her AND (omg!) the unborn. That's normally not going to include D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical etc, sorry to say.
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EiriForLife



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PostSubject: Re: Eiri, are you actually pro-life?   Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:46 pm

xwoman74 wrote:
EiriForLife wrote:
Personally, I have always considered "zef" to be emotionally manipulative because it dehumanizes the unborn.

It doesn't dehumanize anything. Medical facts are just that. FACTS.

The "fact" is calling it a zygote, embryo or fetus. Dehumanization is shortening that to "zef", which is not only a made up term but sounds like some kind of alien disease. We already have a word that describes all stages of young life. It's baby.

Quote :
EiriForLife wrote:
Sure, all of those things are their choice and most of those things are legal, but that doesn't make them healthy choices.

And at the end of the day, if she still wants to terminate a pregnany, that is her decision.
OMG another typo!!! When you can spell "pregnany", get back to me Razz

Quote :
EiriForLife wrote:
I did too, until I realised that the "zef" has a body too, it has organs too, and it has a right to life.

Again, there is no such thing as a right to life.
Constitution....

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It is a legal concept.

Um, DUH.

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And it can be removed by the government at any moment.
I wasn't aware the government was performing D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical etc.

Quote :
And I never said a zef doesn't have a body. Just that it doesn't have a right to take over another person's body against that person's will.
But why is it ok for the government to say a group of human beings doesn't have a right to life? Oh wait that's right, it's NOT

Quote :
EiriForLife wrote:
I want to save a life. If you call that forcing, go for it. But you wouldn't call it forcing if the child was born.

No, you are pro fetus.
According to pro-lifers, I'm a baby-killer. How can I have such a dual personality? Both of you are wrong.

Quote :
EiriForLife wrote:
Treatment does not involve the death of a child.

Again, emotional babble does NOTHING for me. There is no child.
So there's a.... mouse in there? Child means offspring. A fetus is offspring.

Quote :
EiriForLife wrote:
Why isn't the doctor treating the child with the same respect? Instead of treating it like a human being, he treats it like a cancer. But that's a lie.

Where does a doctor say it is cancer?
They TREAT it like cancer, not CALL it cancer. They even dispose of it as medical waste and don't allow the woman to bury it. It's just "waste" after all. Just trash. WRONG. That's another human being, a human life. Don't call it a person if you don't want to, but it is a baby, a child, a human being. And it's legal to kill it for no reason.

Quote :
That again is the anti choice mentality you are brainwashed with.
I was actually pro-choice first. I've only recently become pro-life and that's only because I seriously can't find a proper label for myself. Pro-life is the closest, but even it isn't a good fit. I may have to go back to pro-moderation. Maybe pro-regulation.

Quote :
He is treating his patient, the WOMAN.
The embryo/fetus is also a patient. Remember it? No; of course not. It's just trash. It's not a life. It doesn't deserve to be born. It's just a leech. An inconvenience. An accident. Kill, remove, destroy, forget.

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Remember her?
Yeah, and it gets me called anti-life every time I mention it elsewhere.

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At least I can admit I put the woman first.
In many cases I do. The only case I don't is when she and the child are healthy.

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You can't give equal rights over one body.
I used to think, "the fetus has a right to life but the woman has a right to control her body, and that includes removing the fetus even if it's going to die". Then I thought about that and realise how ridiculous it is. What if we said "you don't deserve life if you can't breathe under water?" The outside world is inhospitable to the fetus.

Quote :
Are you for forced organ donation as well? Guess what, Eiri? There is someone right now that needs a kidney. Let's force you to give one of yours. After all, they have the right to life, right?
That person is not currently residing within me, nor did MY OWN VOLUNTARY ACTIONS lead to him or her needing a kidney.
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xwoman74



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PostSubject: Re: Eiri, are you actually pro-life?   Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:50 pm

EiriForLife wrote:
D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical etc risks her life AND kills her child.

What child?

EiriForLife wrote:
There are TWO people involved

Again, people is LEGAL term.

EiriForLife wrote:
Because I consider her an element in the equation, I'm suddenly a baby-killer. Isn't that funny!?

No, because there is no baby either.

EiriForLife wrote:
There are two human beings.

And one you value over the other.

EiriForLife wrote:
I disagree and I think our constitution does too.

Really? Ever hear of the death penalty?

EiriForLife wrote:
Murder is.

Murder is a legal term as well.

EiriForLife wrote:
You can't guarantee a healthy safe D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical etc, so who are you to decide what woman's life is worth risking?

I'm not. It is HER CHOICE.

EiriForLife wrote:
Because you know when something will go wrong during a D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical etc, right?

Nope I don't. That is why I leave the choice to the WOMAN.

EiriForLife wrote:
You've been having problems with possessive and plural nouns this entire post.

I don't claim to be an educator.

EiriForLife wrote:
If you have complaints about the birthing process then why not protest birthing centers? You want reform? I want reform. You want to save lives? I want to save lives. I'd protest a birthing center with unusually high mortality rates.

So do I. You don't know my position on birth and labor. So don't ASSume it. I am very pro choice when it comes to what a woman wants when it comes to how she choices to deliver as well. Birthing centers are safer (IMO) than hospitals. If you really cared about real, live babies, you would know that.
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PostSubject: Re: Eiri, are you actually pro-life?   Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:32 pm

[quote="EiriForLife" ]
I am simply opposed to D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical abortion etc with healthy mothers and healthy babies. [/quote]

Here is the thing you don't know if that will be the case through out all of the pregnancy. Yes from the time she finds out she is pregnant through the first trimester things maybe fine but things can change quickly. There are several things that develop later in pregnancy that can kill not just the mother but the z/e/f, baby, whatever term you wanna give it. There is not test they can run that will tell you without a doubt that you will or will not develop things things. So that argument does not hold water.

Quote :
Your symptoms would have to be truly debilitating with PROOF of this documented from your last pregnancy.

What if this is your first pregnancy with these debilitating symptoms? Are they just out of luck and they have to stay pregnant because they have to have prior proof?
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Erulissė



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PostSubject: Re: Eiri, are you actually pro-life?   Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:53 pm

EiriForLife wrote:

I can't, but an experienced doctor can.

But prolifers aren't experienced doctors and prolifers want to dictate to me what i can do with my body and make their own decisionas far as what is dangerous to me and decide what risks I can take.

what gives them the right?

Nothing!


Last edited by Erulissė on Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:53 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : changed wording)
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EiriForLife



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PostSubject: Re: Eiri, are you actually pro-life?   Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:26 pm

RebelCats wrote:
[quote="EiriForLife" ]
I am simply opposed to D&C or D&E or suction aspiration or medical abortion etc with healthy mothers and healthy babies.

Here is the thing you don't know if that will be the case through out all of the pregnancy. [/quote]
If she develops a life-threatening condition she should be allowed to abort.

Quote :
Yes from the time she finds out she is pregnant through the first trimester things maybe fine but things can change quickly.
Not quickly enough she would die before an abortion could happen. Very, very unlikely.

Quote :

Quote :
Your symptoms would have to be truly debilitating with PROOF of this documented from your last pregnancy.

What if this is your first pregnancy with these debilitating symptoms? Are they just out of luck and they have to stay pregnant because they have to have prior proof?

That's a different situation. We were discussing a woman who wants to abort every pregnancy based off of previous experiences, which is why she would need to have proof because the debilitating symptoms may not have manifested in the latest pregnancy. If this is your first pregnancy then a doctor can simply see the conditions you are experiencing and make an education decision based off of your own personal feelings as well.
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xwoman74



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PostSubject: Re: Eiri, are you actually pro-life?   Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:15 pm

EiriForLife wrote:
Constitution....

What about it? The Constitution doesn't mention abortion rights. Just the rights of people. Which, again, is a legal term. Since people are BORN, fetus' don't count.

EiriForLife wrote:
But why is it ok for the government to say a group of human beings doesn't have a right to life? Oh wait that's right, it's NOT

Yes, they do. The government allows the death penalty... war... etc.

EiriForLife wrote:
They TREAT it like cancer

Your opinion, not fact.

EiriForLife wrote:
They even dispose of it as medical waste and don't allow the woman to bury it.

Which I agree with. Why not take how your appendix too?

EiriForLife wrote:
The embryo/fetus is also a patient.

No, it isn't.

EiriForLife wrote:
In many cases I do. The only case I don't is when she and the child are healthy.

Which, according to you, is most of the cases. @@

EiriForLife wrote:
The outside world is inhospitable to the fetus.

Too bad.

EiriForLife wrote:
That person is not currently residing within me, nor did MY OWN VOLUNTARY ACTIONS lead to him or her needing a kidney.

There she goes again with the pro punishment mentality for sex. That didn't take long.
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PostSubject: Re: Eiri, are you actually pro-life?   Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:35 pm

I'm not responding to you anymore xwoman. We're just going around in circles. You know my opinions on things. You insulted me, and just generally took the debate into the realm of argument. If you would like to start anew with a new reply and reformulate your questions for me, I will answer.
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PostSubject: Re: Eiri, are you actually pro-life?   Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:37 pm

Erulissė wrote:
EiriForLife wrote:

I can't, but an experienced doctor can.

But prolifers aren't experienced doctors and prolifers want to dictate to me what i can do with my body and make their own decisionas far as what is dangerous to me and decide what risks I can take.

what gives them the right?

Nothing!

There are experienced doctors who are pro-life AND pro-choice. Those doctors are the ones who should determine if it is safe for the woman and child for the pregnancy to continue. Personally, a doctor's political stance on abortion shouldn't affect his ability to diagnose a woman and determine her health. If she is in danger, she should abort if that is the safest option. In late-term pregnancy, a birth is often the process of abortion anyway, so I don't see why the child can't simply be given birth to, unless the abortion is faster.

If the child can be saved without risking the mother's life, then it should be saved.

You shouldn't want to kill your own offspring. I feel that's my goal: to convince women to choose life, not death.
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PostSubject: Re: Eiri, are you actually pro-life?   Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:10 pm

EiriForLife wrote:
Erulissė wrote:
EiriForLife wrote:

I can't, but an experienced doctor can.

But prolifers aren't experienced doctors and prolifers want to dictate to me what i can do with my body and make their own decisionas far as what is dangerous to me and decide what risks I can take.

what gives them the right?

Nothing!

There are experienced doctors who are pro-life AND pro-choice. Those doctors are the ones who should determine if it is safe for the woman and child for the pregnancy to continue. Personally, a doctor's political stance on abortion shouldn't affect his ability to diagnose a woman and determine her health. If she is in danger, she should abort if that is the safest option. In late-term pregnancy, a birth is often the process of abortion anyway, so I don't see why the child can't simply be given birth to, unless the abortion is faster.

If the child can be saved without risking the mother's life, then it should be saved.

You shouldn't want to kill your own offspring. I feel that's my goal: to convince women to choose life, not death.

You are prolife. you say a doctor should make that decision-for certain situations- (i hope along with the woman) but if you got yourway abortion would be illegal for any other situation. You think you should have the right to determine what risks I should take and what direction mylife should go in. where does that come from? youhave no idea who i am but youwant to force me to give birth? and youtell me what I should want-why do you get to tell me that? I think you should want me to be happy and make my own decisons.


Last edited by Erulissė on Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:12 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : forgot something)
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PostSubject: Re: Eiri, are you actually pro-life?   Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:23 pm

EiriForLife wrote:
If you would like to start anew with a new reply and reformulate your questions for me, I will answer.

Don't do me any favors. You are just a new parrot for the pro fetus side.
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PostSubject: Re: Eiri, are you actually pro-life?   Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:24 pm

EiriForLife wrote:
Those doctors are the ones who should determine if it is safe for the woman and child for the pregnancy to continue.

No, that is the woman's choice. If she wants to risk her life against the doctor's advice, that is her decision to make.
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PostSubject: Re: Eiri, are you actually pro-life?   Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:54 pm

Erulissė wrote:
EiriForLife wrote:
Erulissė wrote:
EiriForLife wrote:

I can't, but an experienced doctor can.

But prolifers aren't experienced doctors and prolifers want to dictate to me what i can do with my body and make their own decisionas far as what is dangerous to me and decide what risks I can take.

what gives them the right?

Nothing!

There are experienced doctors who are pro-life AND pro-choice. Those doctors are the ones who should determine if it is safe for the woman and child for the pregnancy to continue. Personally, a doctor's political stance on abortion shouldn't affect his ability to diagnose a woman and determine her health. If she is in danger, she should abort if that is the safest option. In late-term pregnancy, a birth is often the process of abortion anyway, so I don't see why the child can't simply be given birth to, unless the abortion is faster.

If the child can be saved without risking the mother's life, then it should be saved.

You shouldn't want to kill your own offspring. I feel that's my goal: to convince women to choose life, not death.

You are prolife. you say a doctor should make that decision-for certain situations- (i hope along with the woman) but if you got yourway abortion would be illegal for any other situation. You think you should have the right to determine what risks I should take and what direction mylife should go in. where does that come from? youhave no idea who i am but youwant to force me to give birth? and youtell me what I should want-why do you get to tell me that? I think you should want me to be happy and make my own decisons.

I know I'm pro-life, thanks for telling me lol.

I believe a woman should not be allowed an abortion if she is mentally and physically healthy and the unborn is healthy. That's the ONLY situation I would disallow abortion. There are literally thousands of conditions that negate it, such as young maternal age, diseases, conditions, hormonal imbalances etc.

It's just to me, a perfectly healthy woman killing a perfectly healthy fetus is so pointless. Why does she think abortion is the right choice? Is it societal? There are two human lives at risk here.

I do not think I should have the right to determine what risks you can take. I think your DOCTOR should have that right to discuss it with you and determine if you are at risk. A doctor is not going to allow his patient to continue a pregnancy if it is dangerous!

Of course I have no idea what you want; well, actually I do on one point. You want to kill another human being and get away with it repeatedly with no one questioning it.
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