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 Caskets for Miscarriages

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krystineM

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PostSubject: Re: Caskets for Miscarriages   Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:35 pm

Raped or not Eiri, the WOMAN has the right to choose whether she wants to continue with the pregnancy, or discontinue it.
Just because the woman was raped does not make the whole process of abortion any different.
It's still her choice.
Just like its her choice if her and her partner become pregnant unplanned, its the woman's choice to keep it or not.

And there is no financial aid for pregnant woman, the woman can collect welfare after if she is jobless and the more children that she has increases the amount of money she gets from the govornment. But she does not collect financial aid during the 9 months of pregnancy, and it does not cover hospital costs to have that child, get all the shots which are mandatory to get, and cover her hospital stay.

And just so you know, regret is a stage of grieving in abortion that women MAY experience when they have an abortion.
At first they may experience relief, then feel sad, then wonder if this was the right choice, then may end up regretting it.
That's what all women can experience when they have an abortion whether they did it because of rape or not.

The cause of abortion is not justified by what the situation is for that abortion.
Its a choice in the end that they think long and hard about.
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futureshock

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PostSubject: Re: Caskets for Miscarriages   Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:37 pm

Good points Krystine, although I'm pretty sure eiri is agreeing with us about the rape issue.

Let's go over to PLA to stick up for her!

http://www.prolifeamerica.com/fusetalk/forum/categories.cfm?catid=7

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EiriForLife



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PostSubject: Re: Caskets for Miscarriages   Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:16 pm

krystineM wrote:
Once again Eiri,
if it were a medical problem that came about later on in the pregnancy, the doctor WOULD go over what actions the mother can take,
I never said they wouldn't so why are you saying this again?

Quote :
and what they can do to help her without harming the child. They would most likely offer abortion as one of those options, but in the end, it is the mother's choice as to what she wants to do with her child and body. So i don't see how it would be covering their asses.
Duh, that's why it's legal. What are you still talking about this for? I haven't rejected any of the above information.


Last edited by EiriForLife on Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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EiriForLife



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PostSubject: Re: Caskets for Miscarriages   Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:17 pm

futureshock wrote:
Good points Krystine, although I'm pretty sure eiri is agreeing with us about the rape issue.

Let's go over to PLA to stick up for her!

http://www.prolifeamerica.com/fusetalk/forum/categories.cfm?catid=7

Yeah, I am. You'll never win against Galen; I apparently have my head in the sand.
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EiriForLife



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PostSubject: Re: Caskets for Miscarriages   Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:18 pm

futureshock wrote:
EiriForLife wrote:
futureshock wrote:
EiriForLife wrote:


Quote :
If a couple got pregnant, and could not afford to raise that child seeing as they cost well up to $40,000+ to raise,
and decided to abort because they want to be financially stable when they bring a child into the world, and would not want to place a child they created up for adoption, that would be their reason for abortion.
I don't think it's right to kill that child. There is financial aid for pregnancy.
LOL! WHAT????
Which part are you confused by? I will try to explain further. I don't believe a child should be killed over financial issues.
Stop using the pro-life rhetoric here, it's nauseating. People aren't slitting the throats of their 3 year olds because of financial problems.
Quote :

Quote :
Quote :
I can understand them not wanting to keep that child, but I can't see the justification for its death. I just can't. "We couldn't afford to raise you, so we killed you." Early term no problem, but late in pregnancy that is not a viable excuse. Why did they wait so long? If it was because they couldn't afford it early on then fine, but past 20 or so weeks it's not an option at all anyway. So we're talking between 8 and 20 weeks.
WHY IS EARLIER THAN 8 WEEKS DIFFERENT THAN LATER THAN 8 WEEKS?
Because of the paper you posted on here discussing what is a human being and what is not. Shocked Obviously.

What paper? I showed you a source which shows exactly when, country by country, human being status is bestowed. Almost all of them said "at birth".

You showed excerpts from a paper discussing how a human being is a multicellular organism. That's what I'm talking about. Brain short, wrestled a 4 year old all day.
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krystineM

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PostSubject: Re: Caskets for Miscarriages   Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:42 pm

i said that Eiri, because you seemed to imply that they would over look the fact that the mother may want to take into consideration of abortion.
You worded your response in a way that sounded like they would not even tell the mother she has the option of abortion, and just go ahead with whatever procedure they discussed with the mother to be.
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EiriForLife



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PostSubject: Re: Caskets for Miscarriages   Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:35 pm

krystineM wrote:
i said that Eiri, because you seemed to imply that they would over look the fact that the mother may want to take into consideration of abortion
I did not intend to imply any such thing.
Quote :
You worded your response in a way that sounded like they would not even tell the mother she has the option of abortion, and just go ahead with whatever procedure they discussed with the mother to be.
Logically I agree with you; and if I recall, I said that this was an argument PRO-LIFERS put forward as an explanation for late-term abortions. THEY seem to think that doctors only offer abortion (and do so often for so many different kinds of situations) "just" to cover their asses.
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helpinhealing



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PostSubject: Re: Caskets for Miscarriages   Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:31 am

Just because someone wants to bury their child doesn't mean they want a funeral. What is wrong with getting a casket and burying the baby? Babies who die should not just be flushed down a toilet.
BTW Babies who are 10 weeks after conception are 2 inches long.
Babies who are 12 weeks after conception are 3 inches long.
Babies who are 15 weeks after conception are 7-8 inches long. And they only get bigger.
The Heaven's Gain website has caskets for babies up to 27 weeks. Why would someone want to deny someone else the right to bury their child?
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helpinhealing



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PostSubject: Re: Caskets for Miscarriages   Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:35 am

krystineM wrote:
i dont think i would throw a funeral though.
i would have the baby cremated and put in a urn.
but i wouldnt have a funeral
it would be a hard thing to go through.

Just because someone wants to bury their child doesn't mean they want a funeral. Most people I have heard of had a very small burial and no funeral.
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futureshock

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PostSubject: Re: Caskets for Miscarriages   Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:54 am

helpinhealing wrote:
Just because someone wants to bury their child doesn't mean they want a funeral. What is wrong with getting a casket and burying the baby? Babies who die should not just be flushed down a toilet.
BTW Babies who are 10 weeks after conception are 2 inches long.
Babies who are 12 weeks after conception are 3 inches long.
Babies who are 15 weeks after conception are 7-8 inches long. And they only get bigger.
The Heaven's Gain website has caskets for babies up to 27 weeks. Why would someone want to deny someone else the right to bury their child?

Nobody is trying to deny anyone's right to bury anything. It is the pro-life side that is in the business of denying rights.

Here are more accurate measurements, for your own edification and other interested parties:
"BTW Babies who are 10 weeks after conception are 2 inches long."
SIZE: 23.0 - 26.0 mm (3/4 to 1 inch)
TIME PERIOD: 56 - 60 days post-ovulation
http://www.visembryo.com/baby/23.html
SIZE: The crown-to-rump length of the growing fetus is about 1.25 to 1.68 inches (31 to 42mm).
TIME PERIOD: 61- 68 days post-ovulation
http://www.visembryo.com/baby/10_weeks.html

"Babies who are 12 weeks after conception are 3 inches long."
Length: The crown-to-rump length almost 2.5 inches (61mm). Length is a better measure at this time than fetal weight.
http://www.visembryo.com/baby/12_weeks.html
"Babies who are 15 weeks after conception are 7-8 inches long."
14 weeks
SIZE: Almost 1 ounce (25g). Crown-to-rump length is about 3.2 to 4.1 inches (80 to 9mm).
http://www.visembryo.com/baby/14_weeks.html

16 weeks
LENGTH: The crown-to-rump length of the fetus is about 4.3 to 4.6 inches (108 to 111mm).
http://www.visembryo.com/baby/16_weeks.html

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futureshock

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PostSubject: Re: Caskets for Miscarriages   Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:56 am

helpinhealing wrote:
Babies who die should not just be flushed down a toilet.

It would be nearly impossible to flush a baby down a toilet. Embryos, on the other hand, are flushed down the toilet by the millions.

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helpinhealing



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PostSubject: Re: Caskets for Miscarriages   Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:09 pm

futureshock wrote:
helpinhealing wrote:
Just because someone wants to bury their child doesn't mean they want a funeral. What is wrong with getting a casket and burying the baby? Babies who die should not just be flushed down a toilet.
BTW Babies who are 10 weeks after conception are 2 inches long.
Babies who are 12 weeks after conception are 3 inches long.
Babies who are 15 weeks after conception are 7-8 inches long. And they only get bigger.
The Heaven's Gain website has caskets for babies up to 27 weeks. Why would someone want to deny someone else the right to bury their child?

Nobody is trying to deny anyone's right to bury anything. It is the pro-life side that is in the business of denying rights.

Here are more accurate measurements, for your own edification and other interested parties:
"BTW Babies who are 10 weeks after conception are 2 inches long."
SIZE: 23.0 - 26.0 mm (3/4 to 1 inch)
TIME PERIOD: 56 - 60 days post-ovulation
http://www.visembryo.com/baby/23.html
SIZE: The crown-to-rump length of the growing fetus is about 1.25 to 1.68 inches (31 to 42mm).
TIME PERIOD: 61- 68 days post-ovulation
http://www.visembryo.com/baby/10_weeks.html

"Babies who are 12 weeks after conception are 3 inches long."
Length: The crown-to-rump length almost 2.5 inches (61mm). Length is a better measure at this time than fetal weight.
http://www.visembryo.com/baby/12_weeks.html
"Babies who are 15 weeks after conception are 7-8 inches long."
14 weeks
SIZE: Almost 1 ounce (25g). Crown-to-rump length is about 3.2 to 4.1 inches (80 to 9mm).
http://www.visembryo.com/baby/14_weeks.html

16 weeks
LENGTH: The crown-to-rump length of the fetus is about 4.3 to 4.6 inches (108 to 111mm).
http://www.visembryo.com/baby/16_weeks.html

Notice that I wrote after conception, not gestrational age. Gestational age includes the two weeks you are not preganant prior to when you get pregnant . Look at the age 10 weeks would be 70 days your picture says 56-60 days post ovulation. The ddays post ovulationare the ages fro conception. Also notic ethe height her is concidered from head to rump. If they measured any person from head to rump they weouldbe much shorter.
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helpinhealing



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PostSubject: Re: Caskets for Miscarriages   Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:14 pm

futureshock wrote:
helpinhealing wrote:
Babies who die should not just be flushed down a toilet.

It would be nearly impossible to flush a baby down a toilet. Embryos, on the other hand, are flushed down the toilet by the millions.
The BABY is in the embro stage until 8 weeks after conception or 10 weeks of gestation. After that 8 weeks after conception the BABY is in the Fetus stage. Do you think a mom who recovers an ebryo who has died at 7 weeks and 6 days after conception should not be able to bury her child? At this age a baby has fingers and toes. I would know I had a baby die at this exact age( according to the ultrasound) and I buried him, I didn't flush Him. Do you think it is OK to flush a fetus?
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futureshock

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PostSubject: Re: Caskets for Miscarriages   Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:47 pm

helpinhealing wrote:


Notice that I wrote after conception, not gestrational age.

Notice how I included both in that post?

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PostSubject: Re: Caskets for Miscarriages   Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:53 pm

helpinhealing wrote:
futureshock wrote:
helpinhealing wrote:
Babies who die should not just be flushed down a toilet.

It would be nearly impossible to flush a baby down a toilet. Embryos, on the other hand, are flushed down the toilet by the millions.
The BABY is in the embro stage until 8 weeks after conception or 10 weeks of gestation. After that 8 weeks after conception the BABY is in the Fetus stage. Do you think a mom who recovers an ebryo who has died at 7 weeks and 6 days after conception should not be able to bury her child? At this age a baby has fingers and toes. I would know I had a baby die at this exact age( according to the ultrasound) and I buried him, I didn't flush Him. Do you think it is OK to flush a fetus?

How many times do I have to say this?

Quote :
Nobody is trying to deny anyone's right to bury anything. It is the pro-life side that is in the business of denying rights.

So how did you find the embryo you miscarried? It's in a tiny sac and it's a half an inch long. How did you see the toes and fingers? Did you put it under a magnifying glass?
Did you cut open the sac?

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helpinhealing



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PostSubject: Re: Caskets for Miscarriages   Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:34 pm

futureshock wrote:
helpinhealing wrote:
futureshock wrote:
helpinhealing wrote:
Babies who die should not just be flushed down a toilet.

It would be nearly impossible to flush a baby down a toilet. Embryos, on the other hand, are flushed down the toilet by the millions.
The BABY is in the embro stage until 8 weeks after conception or 10 weeks of gestation. After that 8 weeks after conception the BABY is in the Fetus stage. Do you think a mom who recovers an ebryo who has died at 7 weeks and 6 days after conception should not be able to bury her child? At this age a baby has fingers and toes. I would know I had a baby die at this exact age( according to the ultrasound) and I buried him, I didn't flush Him. Do you think it is OK to flush a fetus?

How many times do I have to say this?

Quote :
Nobody is trying to deny anyone's right to bury anything. It is the pro-life side that is in the business of denying rights.

So how did you find the embryo you miscarried? It's in a tiny sac and it's a half an inch long. How did you see the toes and fingers? Did you put it under a magnifying glass?
Did you cut open the sac?
He came out in a sack. His body was 1 inch long from head to rump and with his legs straight he was about an inch and a half long. He had all his fingers and toes, eyes, ears, and mouth. I share this information because you asked. It is very personal to me and a great cause of grief.
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futureshock

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PostSubject: Re: Caskets for Miscarriages   Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:11 pm

I am very sorry for your loss. I do appreciate you sharing this.

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helpinhealing



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PostSubject: Re: Caskets for Miscarriages   Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:32 pm

futureshock wrote:
I am very sorry for your loss. I do appreciate you sharing this.

Thank you for your kind words and understanding.
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