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 Everyone, this is for you!

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EiriForLife



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PostSubject: Everyone, this is for you!   Sun Aug 24, 2008 12:05 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unassistedchildbirth.com%2F&v=dZJE-3BvlF0

Orgasmic birth videos! If not orgasmic, certainly NOT what Futureshock and other people expect birth to be.

http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2008/02/orgasmic-childbirth-video-evidence-nsfw.html

I don't buy the excuse for abortion that "birth is a terrible painful horrible thing!" Sure, it can be. But it doesn't HAVE to be, and I don't think it's an excuse to kill a child.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP1-KMKvuxk&eurl=http://www.unassistedchildbirth.com/birthvideos.html

There are so many better reasons to abort than "I'm afraid of childbirth"! I'm not against having a reason to abort. I'm against the myth that birth is, always was, and always will be a horrible, painful, debilitating thing.

http://orgasmicbirth.com/

As always, find more videos and articles here!
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Erulissė



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PostSubject: Re: Everyone, this is for you!   Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:08 pm

Yeah, thankgodness for drugs. Wink

that is amazing though I hope it's for real.
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krystineM

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone, this is for you!   Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:41 pm

but if it weren't a painful experience and was just like going in to order a cup of coffee,
so many people would pop kids out like pez in a way.

and i agree too, for some it is a pain-free experience maybe because they have a higher pain threshold,
but i think that it is a little[or a lot] painful so kids dont think its a walk in the park and have babies like its nothing.

i think it's all in how a person takes and handles pain.
for those who handle it well, birth is probably no problem and feels wonderful.
but i think that is a small percentage of people.
everyone i've talked to and who have talked to me about their birthing experience has said its painful, but not unbareable painful.
but child birth isn't supposed to tickle.
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futureshock

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone, this is for you!   Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:13 pm

EiriForLife wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unassistedchildbirth.com%2F&v=dZJE-3BvlF0

Orgasmic birth videos! If not orgasmic, certainly NOT what Futureshock and other people expect birth to be.

http://www.thethinkingblog.com/2008/02/orgasmic-childbirth-video-evidence-nsfw.html

I don't buy the excuse for abortion that "birth is a terrible painful horrible thing!" Sure, it can be. But it doesn't HAVE to be, and I don't think it's an excuse to kill a child.
Don't twist this around. Nobody said that. YOU SAID a reason you wanted abortion outlawed was because of a video you saw which made you think abortion was painful for the woman.
Quote :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP1-KMKvuxk&eurl=http://www.unassistedchildbirth.com/birthvideos.html

There are so many better reasons to abort than "I'm afraid of childbirth"!
Again, stop twisting this. You are the one who said you are against abortion because you didn't like the procedure you saw in a video. We were responding spefically to that, by showing you how trivial the abortion procedure is COMPARED to the woman's ONLY OTHER OPTION, childbirth.
Quote :

I'm not against having a reason to abort. I'm against the myth that birth is, always was, and always will be a horrible, painful, debilitating thing.

http://orgasmicbirth.com/

As always, find more videos and articles here!

The point is, childbirth is infinitely more painful and dangerous than abortion.



p.s.

Quote :
If not orgasmic, certainly NOT what Futureshock and other people expect birth to be.

It's not that I "expect it" to be something, I HAVE ALREADY EXPERIENCED IT.

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Last edited by futureshock on Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Everyone, this is for you!   Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:20 pm

Here is a dose of reality:

by Alexa Payne

Why is giving birth painful?

A really powerful muscle is working hard to stretch open the cervix, and press a hard object out a small opening. In the process it grinds that hard object (the back of the baby's head) against tissues and nerves, and stretches the tissues it passes by. How can it reasonably be expected to not be painful in most cases?

No one disputes that some women have severe cramping during menstruation. This cramping is so severe in some cases that women are unable to go to work. But people like to say that everyone could have a painless birth if only they did not fear birth. While it is certainly true (and much research confirms this) that panicking and fighting the contractions increases pain, it is not true that being calm will relieve all pain.

Sometimes that hard occiput hits or even stretches the sciatic nerve, causing pain to radiate to the legs. Many women suffer tears during childbirth. Who could expect the tearing of flesh to be painless? The contractions themselves, while painless to some women, feel like the worst muscle cramp ever to others. Most people have been jolted out of their sleep by the seizing up of a calf muscle at least once in their lives. Enduring that every 3-5 minutes for 30 hours is a marathon of pain that most people who have not birthed a child will never equal in their lives. Some researchers and doctors believe the pain of uterine contractions can be attributed to ischemia, or lack of blood flow, and is therefore like the pain of a heart attack.

My first child was born at a hospital. It was long and painful. I made it worse by laboring at home in a semi-reclined position which probably turned the baby posterior and made her hard head press against my spine. I was afraid and fought the contractions which made them both more painful and less productive.

My second child was born in a hospital without pain medication and afterwards I said to a friend, "Have you ever seen a photograph of someone on fire? Of someone who self-immolated? I saw a photo like that in the paper and now I understand the look in her eye. It is a look of wanting to run away from your own body. That is how I felt." It is true that I only felt that way for the short time when I was in transition and could not keep myself from fighting the contractions. It was terribly painful when I didn't fight them. It was unbearable when I did.

My third child was born at home in a labor tub, very quickly. And yes, painfully. There is no doubt, however, that the calm atmosphere at home, and my experience, the feeling that I had done it before and knew what was coming, allowed me to relax and resist the urge to fight the clenching of the muscle.

Pain in birth is a combination of mind and body. You can diminish the pain by not fighting it and trying to view it as muscles working hard. But there is no getting around the facts. The uterus is getting the no pain, no gain workout of its life. A big head has to get through a small passage and it presses on and stretches sensitive parts on the way.

http://www.helium.com/items/211507-why-giving-birth-is-painful

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EiriForLife



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PostSubject: Re: Everyone, this is for you!   Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:21 pm

Erulissė wrote:
Yeah, thankgodness for drugs. Wink

that is amazing though I hope it's for real.
I'm pretty sure those women can't fake painless birth on video while going through labor Wink
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Erulissė



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PostSubject: Re: Everyone, this is for you!   Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:09 pm

EiriForLife wrote:
Erulissė wrote:
Yeah, thankgodness for drugs. Wink

that is amazing though I hope it's for real.
I'm pretty sure those women can't fake painless birth on video while going through labor Wink

there are drugs.
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RebelCats

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone, this is for you!   Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:57 pm

Erulissė wrote:
EiriForLife wrote:
Erulissė wrote:
Yeah, thankgodness for drugs. Wink

that is amazing though I hope it's for real.
I'm pretty sure those women can't fake painless birth on video while going through labor Wink

there are drugs.

yep. I had drugs and still felt pain (lots of it). A girl I know had drugs and barely let out a grunt. So its not bound reason in my mind that a woman can have pain meds. and fake a birth to make it look pretty.
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PostSubject: Re: Everyone, this is for you!   Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:00 pm

EiriForLife wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unassistedchildbirth.com%2F&v=dZJE-3BvlF0

Orgasmic birth videos! If not orgasmic, certainly NOT what Futureshock and other people expect birth to be.

She said relatively pain free not totally pain free.


Quote :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP1-KMKvuxk&eurl=http://www.unassistedchildbirth.com/birthvideos.html
This one I notice they had no sound at all of what the woman in labor said. Me thinks that wasn't one of those pain free natural births.

And I am sorry just because one does not scream and yell in labor does not mean they are not in pain. They just ain't yelling about it.
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EiriForLife



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PostSubject: Re: Everyone, this is for you!   Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:04 pm

Erulissė wrote:
EiriForLife wrote:
Erulissė wrote:
Yeah, thankgodness for drugs. Wink

that is amazing though I hope it's for real.
I'm pretty sure those women can't fake painless birth on video while going through labor Wink

there are drugs.

Oh for fuck's sake. You playing devil's advocate or something? Why is something so wondeful so hard to swallow? Is it because it ruins your image of birth as horrible, agonizing torture every woman should avoid at all costs unless she absolutely positively wants to be a "breeder"? Yeah, that's "objective" pro-choice talk there: women who actually HATE mothers! They HATE women who give birth! They think giving birth is DEGRADING to women! Despite the fact that it is the single most powerful thing ANY human can do: give life. And a man can't do it. BIRTH IS POWER.

These women are not high or doped up or anything like that. Not a single story on any of these sites mentions drugs - in fact, one of the points stressed by these women is they are LUCID, not on drugs like many were for their first hospital deliveries! A woman with an epidural is on drugs. A woman having an at-home birth is NOT. These women are not on drugs, they are not in pain, and they have beautiful births.
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PostSubject: Re: Everyone, this is for you!   Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:20 pm

EiriForLife wrote:
they are not in pain .

Any you know this 100% for sure because? Oh yeah because some unknown person on the net said they wasn't. Got it.
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EiriForLife



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PostSubject: Re: Everyone, this is for you!   Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:30 pm

RebelCats wrote:
EiriForLife wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unassistedchildbirth.com%2F&v=dZJE-3BvlF0

Orgasmic birth videos! If not orgasmic, certainly NOT what Futureshock and other people expect birth to be.

She said relatively pain free not totally pain free.


Quote :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP1-KMKvuxk&eurl=http://www.unassistedchildbirth.com/birthvideos.html
This one I notice they had no sound at all of what the woman in labor said. Me thinks that wasn't one of those pain free natural births.

And I am sorry just because one does not scream and yell in labor does not mean they are not in pain. They just ain't yelling about it.

Methinks you should read some of the stories on painfreebirth.com before opening your mouth and sounding like an idiot. Check out this one:
http://www.mama2mama.org/margaret_j.html

or this one:
http://www.mama2mama.org/painless.html
Notice the title of that one is "Painless, UNMEDICATED Birth". So much for your drug theory.
"And my body or my subconscious, or both, recognized that difference in a truly visceral way, opening my mind to the fact that the sensations of normal, unhindered, unmedicated childbirth do not equal pain."

"But the woman who experiences painless, even pleasurable birth [...] is, quite often, simply unafraid of birth. In labor, she does not see herself as a victim of her body or of the birth process, but as an active participant... Birth is the crowning and supreme expression of a woman's sexuality, and this woman knows and embraces that truth."

There are other stories on this site:
"Then I experienced transition; having had 2 babies before, I knew what that was. Except there was no pain: instead I felt rapture, utter bliss and was filled with light and love. My mind was emptied of identity and there was nothing there but love, expansiveness and light. I had read about states of nirvana and things like that, and had no doubt that some form of that was what was happening to me."

A note on how you thought those women were in pain from the videos:
"I only had a total of an hour and a half of intense, active labor, which I can't describe as painful. But interestingly enough, my father-in-law observed me as being in pain throughout that time. I can see where a misinterpretation of childbirth may occur. "

"I entered the hospital with a birthing plan in hand stating NO IV hydration, NO pain meds, and only occasional monitoring of my baby (I had a very healthy pregnancy).
Look, more mention of NO DRUGS.

"Who started this ugly rumor that childbirth is painful? I surely didn't find it that way, yet whenever I tell that to someone I'm called either insane or a liar. I've been told that nature makes us forget the pain of childbirth and it is suggested that my memory has failed me. Or else my good experience is simply chalked up to luck."
A shame that these women are told to doubt their own feelings.

Also, re-read this site if you forgot.
http://www.unassistedchildbirth.com/sensual/orgasmic.html

"I feel the baby come down. The sensation is ecstatic. I had prepared somewhat for this being as painful as my last delivery had been. Yet this time the pulse of birth feels wonderful! I am building up to the birth climax after nine months of pleasurable foreplay. With one push the babe is in the canal. THE NEXT PUSH BRINGS HIM DOWN, DOWN INTO THAT SPACE JUST BEFORE ORGASM WHEN WE WOMEN KNOW HOW GOD MUST HAVE FELT CREATING THIS PLANET....HE COMES, AS DO I."
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EiriForLife



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PostSubject: Re: Everyone, this is for you!   Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:39 pm

RebelCats wrote:
EiriForLife wrote:
they are not in pain .

Any you know this 100% for sure because? Oh yeah because some unknown person on the net said they wasn't. Got it.
These are not unknown women. Many of them share their names, their addresses, and many have contact information. The owners of both sites have contact information as well.
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EiriForLife



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PostSubject: Re: Everyone, this is for you!   Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:40 pm

RebelCats wrote:
Erulissė wrote:
EiriForLife wrote:
Erulissė wrote:
Yeah, thankgodness for drugs. Wink

that is amazing though I hope it's for real.
I'm pretty sure those women can't fake painless birth on video while going through labor Wink

there are drugs.

yep. I had drugs and still felt pain (lots of it). A girl I know had drugs and barely let out a grunt. So its not bound reason in my mind that a woman can have pain meds. and fake a birth to make it look pretty.
Too bad for you. You shouldn't feel ashamed of that.

"Before you read on, please know that this page is not intended to give the impression that painless unmedicated childbirth is the be-all and the end-all, or to make you feel bad if your birth experience was painful. Rather, I hope to convey how and why painless, drug-free births can even occur in a culture that so fears and mismanages the birth process."
http://www.mama2mama.org/painless.html
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PostSubject: Re: Everyone, this is for you!   Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:33 pm

lol @ this whole thing!!!! No, let me change that to ROFL!!!!!!

Eiri, go ask your own mother about how fun giving birth was.

This is like when I read about women who ejaculate during orgasm, with even more fluid coming out of them than men. I believe it happened, but it doesn't happen for most women. In fact, I believe a lot more women will experience ejaculation than will ever experience a painless birth.

Besides, I thought you were a Christian now, Eiri? The Bible says childbirth MUST be painful.

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone, this is for you!   Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:34 pm

P.S. Having an epidural and other pain meds while giving birth DOES NOT MEAN women aren't lucid.

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EiriForLife



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PostSubject: Re: Everyone, this is for you!   Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:50 pm

futureshock wrote:
lol @ this whole thing!!!! No, let me change that to ROFL!!!!!!

Eiri, go ask your own mother about how fun giving birth was.
She had back labor because I was posterior and she had an incompetent night nurse. She was in excrutiating pain that the nurse ignored because she assumed my mom was just a wimp during her first labor. The next nurse came on, whipped my mother into shape and delivered me an hour later, much more easily. When someone knows what they're doing, birth actually works. My mother required no episiotomy, no medication of any kind, no pitocin, none of that crap. Also, I peed on the first nurse (the idiot). What's your point? I never said every woman will or CAN have a painless birth. YOU were the one who said that you didn't believe in pleasurable birth. I have presented you with proof. Now, because you don't LIKE the fact that I HAVE proof, you're trying to disprove it just so you can be right.

Quote :
This is like when I read about women who ejaculate during orgasm, with even more fluid coming out of them than men. I believe it happened, but it doesn't happen for most women.
I never said this happens to all women or even most - you ASSumed. But I think you and the other women on here are disgusting for thinking and maintaining that this is impossible or drug induced or just fake.

Quote :
In fact, I believe a lot more women will experience ejaculation than will ever experience a painless birth.
So? Again, what is your point? Do you think painless birth is physically impossible, or are you willing to admit it may largely be a social constraint? Think about the other women it mentions from other countries who ALL have painless births, or births at least less attended by such stress and grief as American birth.

Not every birth is going to be perfect, but I believe a lot more CAN be.

Quote :
Besides, I thought you were a Christian now, Eiri? The Bible says childbirth MUST be painful.
There are actually scriptures that contradict that. Secondly, being christian these days doesn't mean I have to believe in the inerrency of the bible, and I certainly DON'T!!!!! The bible is a document created by men. It has been retranslated for 2000 years. There's no way it is the word of God anymore. Furthermore, much of it is based on the myths of OTHER CULTURES. I'm christian because I can understand my faith through the words "God", "Jesus", and the language of christianity. It's just how I express my faith. I don't know how to clearly explain that, but just as I'm not a traditional pro-lifer, I am NOT a traditional christian.

Please, stop assuming things about me because of the labels. Yes, they're there just like stereotypes have their purpose, but once someone says "wait, I'm not the stereotype," most open-minded people stop being stupid and rethink their viewpoint.
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EiriForLife



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PostSubject: Re: Everyone, this is for you!   Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:02 pm

futureshock wrote:
P.S. Having an epidural and other pain meds while giving birth DOES NOT MEAN women aren't lucid.
Yeah, cause not being able to feel your lower body isn't distracting AT ALL. It makes labor more difficult because the woman has no desire to push. Cesarian is on the rise, and I've heard so many reports of women feeling like complete crap afterwards as opposed to their previous vaginal births or subsequent v-bacs.
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PostSubject: Re: Everyone, this is for you!   Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:50 am

EiriForLife wrote:
Yeah, cause not being able to feel your lower body isn't distracting AT ALL. It makes labor more difficult because the woman has no desire to push.

Epidurals are not supposed to do that. I could feel my lower body just fine.

EiriForLife wrote:
Cesarian is on the rise, and I've heard so many reports of women feeling like complete crap afterwards as opposed to their previous vaginal births or subsequent v-bacs.

c/s are on the risk b/c of cover the doctor's ass medicine.
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PostSubject: Re: Everyone, this is for you!   Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:45 pm

xwoman74 wrote:
EiriForLife wrote:
Yeah, cause not being able to feel your lower body isn't distracting AT ALL. It makes labor more difficult because the woman has no desire to push.

Epidurals are not supposed to do that. I could feel my lower body just fine.
Same here. I certainly felt everything ESPECIALLY the desire to push. Eiri, you must realize that you are ignorant about the realities of childbirth and the realities of abortion. And don't take offense at the word "ignorant". It simply means a lack of knowledge. We are all ignorant about many things.
Quote :

EiriForLife wrote:
Cesarian is on the rise, and I've heard so many reports of women feeling like complete crap afterwards as opposed to their previous vaginal births or subsequent v-bacs.

c/s are on the risk b/c of cover the doctor's ass medicine.

Also, may women obgyns PREFER c-sections for THEMSELVES because vaginal birth has so many complications and dangers, not just during delivery, but even years after, like incontinence.

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone, this is for you!   Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:49 pm

EiriForLife wrote:
futureshock wrote:
lol @ this whole thing!!!! No, let me change that to ROFL!!!!!!

Eiri, go ask your own mother about how fun giving birth was.
She had back labor because I was posterior and she had an incompetent night nurse. She was in excrutiating pain that the nurse ignored because she assumed my mom was just a wimp during her first labor. The next nurse came on, whipped my mother into shape and delivered me an hour later, much more easily. When someone knows what they're doing, birth actually works. My mother required no episiotomy, no medication of any kind, no pitocin, none of that crap. Also, I peed on the first nurse (the idiot). What's your point? I never said every woman will or CAN have a painless birth. YOU were the one who said that you didn't believe in pleasurable birth. I have presented you with proof. Now, because you don't LIKE the fact that I HAVE proof, you're trying to disprove it just so you can be right.

Quote :
This is like when I read about women who ejaculate during orgasm, with even more fluid coming out of them than men. I believe it happened, but it doesn't happen for most women.
I never said this happens to all women or even most - you ASSumed. But I think you and the other women on here are disgusting for thinking and maintaining that this is impossible or drug induced or just fake.

I didn't say any of those things, in fact I said I believe it could happen.
Quote :


Quote :
In fact, I believe a lot more women will experience ejaculation than will ever experience a painless birth.
So? Again, what is your point? Do you think painless birth is physically impossible, or are you willing to admit it may largely be a social constraint? Think about the other women it mentions from other countries who ALL have painless births, or births at least less attended by such stress and grief as American birth.

Not every birth is going to be perfect, but I believe a lot more CAN be.
And that would be fantastic.
Quote :


Quote :
Besides, I thought you were a Christian now, Eiri? The Bible says childbirth MUST be painful.
There are actually scriptures that contradict that. Secondly, being christian these days doesn't mean I have to believe in the inerrency of the bible, and I certainly DON'T!!!!! The bible is a document created by men. It has been retranslated for 2000 years. There's no way it is the word of God anymore. Furthermore, much of it is based on the myths of OTHER CULTURES. I'm christian because I can understand my faith through the words "God", "Jesus", and the language of christianity. It's just how I express my faith. I don't know how to clearly explain that, but just as I'm not a traditional pro-lifer, I am NOT a traditional christian.

Please, stop assuming things about me because of the labels. Yes, they're there just like stereotypes have their purpose, but once someone says "wait, I'm not the stereotype," most open-minded people stop being stupid and rethink their viewpoint.

It's not a stereotype, it is one of the basic tenets of the Bible.

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone, this is for you!   Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:52 pm

The point to all of this is, you said you were against abortion because of a video you saw in which you felt the woman was in pain.

My point was, the woman's only other choice was childbirth, which is much more painful than abortion, so your argument about abortion looking painful in a video is NOT A VALID REASON to want abortion outlawed.

That is ALL.

P.S. Notice how you are getting angry at people who doubt that a painless birth could happen to them, and you didn't believe us when we told you OUR REAL LIFE abortion experiences were nothing like what you saw in a video.

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PostSubject: Re: Everyone, this is for you!   Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:55 pm

futureshock wrote:
. Notice how you are getting angry at people who doubt that a painless birth could happen to them, and you didn't believe us when we told you OUR REAL LIFE abortion experiences were nothing like what you saw in a video.

Bingo.
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PostSubject: Re: Everyone, this is for you!   Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:01 pm

futureshock wrote:
Also, may women obgyns PREFER c-sections for THEMSELVES because vaginal birth has so many complications and dangers, not just during delivery, but even years after, like incontinence.

Actually, it is the opposite. C/s carry far greater risk of death and medical complications than vaginal births (all things equal).
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PostSubject: Re: Everyone, this is for you!   Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:33 pm

Quote :
These are not unknown women. Many of them share their names, their addresses, and many have contact information. The owners of both sites have contact information as well.

So if I post a name, address, and give some contact info to FS will you believe me if I tell you the sky is really purple.

Quote :
Too bad for you. You shouldn't feel ashamed of that.

Look who is making assumptions now. No where did I say I was ashamed of anything that happened in my labor.

Quote :
Yeah, cause not being able to feel your lower body isn't distracting AT ALL.

This is not the way it is suppose to be. My first labor got flogged up. I was given a continuous drip of the epi. This not how it is normally done, or at least it was not done that way with my other labors. So between that and to much demoral. I did not feel much but got a good sleep in.

But with labors 2, 3, 4 I felt what was needed. I felt most contractions (tho not as bad), I felt the urge to push, and I pushed quite well and needed no other help.
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PostSubject: Re: Everyone, this is for you!   

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