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 To Spank or Not to Spank

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PostSubject: To Spank or Not to Spank   Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:05 pm

Is it okay to spank children? Why or why not? If it is okay, what age is appropriate to begin spanking, and what age is too old to spank?
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krystineM

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PostSubject: Re: To Spank or Not to Spank   Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:00 am

i feel spanking is ok.
why, it gives discipline better [your not like hitting the kid with full force mind you] gets the childs attention,
and there is a less of a chance the child will act up again because he/she does not want to get a slap on the wrist or smack on the bum[which is usually padded with a diaper or pull-up]
2 is usually when they start acting up, have more of a vocabulary and are more likely not to listen to something thats being told or see how far they can get away with something.
Its just a little smack on the bum to get their atantion or slap on the wrist again the bum is usually padded with a diaper or pull-up, and its not using full force, just enough to get them to stop what they were doing and listen attentively.
I dont see anything wrong with it, it doesnt do serious trama to a child after getting a little smack, they forget about it after like a minute because their now being fed, or bathed or playing nicely with you instead of doing what they were doing that was misbehaving.

My mom sometimes smacked me when i was 17/18 and it was once in a while when she did not like what i said back to her, it would be a smack in the face, and i did not think that was appropriate at all. it seemed more labeled towards abuse than anything.
i think the age that is too old to smack is like...10yrs old, then again, if your stern with your kids, have structure and discipline with them too, after a while they know when they've crossed the line, when their told no its no, ask instead of take it, and so on. which make spanking come out of the picture, because they are more likely not to misbehave.
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PostSubject: Re: To Spank or Not to Spank   Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:29 pm

Quote :
When parents use corporal punishment to reduce antisocial behavior, the long-term effect tends to be the opposite. The findings suggest that if parents replace corporal punishment by nonviolent modes of discipline, it could reduce the risk of antisocial behavior among children and reduce the level of violence in American society.

http://archpedi.highwire.org/cgi/content/abstract/151/8/761

Why we don't believe it:

Quote :
The evidence summarized above clearly shows that corporal punishment is associated with adult violence and other crime. Some of this evidence has been available for many years. However, it has mostly been ignored. A current example is the violence prevention programs in a large proportion of American schools. I examined four of these programs. All four seemed to be well-designed. None of the four, however, addressed the most frequent type of violence encountered by teenagers--being hit by a parent. Remember that more than half of all 13 and 14 year olds are hit by their parents each year, and that among teens who are hit by parents, it happens an average of about eight times per year.[ 6] None of the four programs even mention the inconsistency between what they are trying to teach and the example set by most of the parents. It may be beyond the power of a school-based program to get parents to stop hitting their children, but they can at least explain that it is also wrong for parents to correct misbehavior by hitting. Until that is done, it is unrealistic to expect teenagers to accept the idea that hitting is not the way to deal with a friend who insults him/her or makes a pass at his girlfriend or boyfriend.

Another example of the neglect of corporal punishment was revealed by a content analysis of textbooks on child development.[ 20] These books devote an average of only half a page to corporal punishment, despite the fact that it is a part of the socialization experience of over 90% of American children. Additional documentation of the extent to which the findings of research on corporal punishment has been ignored may be found in the preface and chapters 1 and 11 of Beating The Devil Out Of Them: Corporal Punishment in American Families.[ 17]

The recent pamphlet Raising Children to Resist Violence: What You Can Do[ 21] could be a sign that the head-in-the-sand era of American child psychology is ending. This pamphlet says that "Hitting, slapping, or spanking children as punishment shows them that it's okay to hit others to solve problems and can train them to punish others in the same way they were punished."

Spanking and the making of a violent society. Pediatrics; Oct 96 Part 2 of 2, Vol. 98 Issue 4, p837, 6p, 1 diagram, 2 graphs.


Beating the Devil Out of Them

Quote :
CONCLUSION: Among white non-Hispanic children but not among black and Hispanic children, spanking frequency before age 2 is significantly and positively associated with child behavior problems at school age. These findings are consistent with those reported in studies of children older than 2 years but extend these findings to children who are spanked beginning at a relatively early age.

Spanking in early childhood and later behavior problems: a prospective study of infants and young toddlers. Pediatrics (PEDIATRICS), May2004; 113(5 Part 1): 1321-30.
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futureshock

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PostSubject: Re: To Spank or Not to Spank   Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:02 pm

Erulissė wrote:
Quote :
When parents use corporal punishment to reduce antisocial behavior, the long-term effect tends to be the opposite. The findings suggest that if parents replace corporal punishment by nonviolent modes of discipline, it could reduce the risk of antisocial behavior among children and reduce the level of violence in American society.

http://archpedi.highwire.org/cgi/content/abstract/151/8/761

Why we don't believe it:

Quote :
The evidence summarized above clearly shows that corporal punishment is associated with adult violence and other crime. Some of this evidence has been available for many years. However, it has mostly been ignored. A current example is the violence prevention programs in a large proportion of American schools. I examined four of these programs. All four seemed to be well-designed. None of the four, however, addressed the most frequent type of violence encountered by teenagers--being hit by a parent. Remember that more than half of all 13 and 14 year olds are hit by their parents each year, and that among teens who are hit by parents, it happens an average of about eight times per year.[ 6] None of the four programs even mention the inconsistency between what they are trying to teach and the example set by most of the parents. It may be beyond the power of a school-based program to get parents to stop hitting their children, but they can at least explain that it is also wrong for parents to correct misbehavior by hitting. Until that is done, it is unrealistic to expect teenagers to accept the idea that hitting is not the way to deal with a friend who insults him/her or makes a pass at his girlfriend or boyfriend.

Another example of the neglect of corporal punishment was revealed by a content analysis of textbooks on child development.[ 20] These books devote an average of only half a page to corporal punishment, despite the fact that it is a part of the socialization experience of over 90% of American children. Additional documentation of the extent to which the findings of research on corporal punishment has been ignored may be found in the preface and chapters 1 and 11 of Beating The Devil Out Of Them: Corporal Punishment in American Families.[ 17]

The recent pamphlet Raising Children to Resist Violence: What You Can Do[ 21] could be a sign that the head-in-the-sand era of American child psychology is ending. This pamphlet says that "Hitting, slapping, or spanking children as punishment shows them that it's okay to hit others to solve problems and can train them to punish others in the same way they were punished."


WOW I HAD NO IDEA! I would even have had a hard time believing so many kids were being hit if it weren't for this post which is right before the current post:
krystineM wrote:

My mom sometimes smacked me when i was 17/18 and it was once in a while when she did not like what i said back to her, it would be a smack in the face, and i did not think that was appropriate at all. it seemed more labeled towards abuse than anything.
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Erulissė



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PostSubject: Re: To Spank or Not to Spank   Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:47 pm

Finish this analogy:

Kids are people. Hitting people is wrong. Hitting kids is _______

study
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PostSubject: Re: To Spank or Not to Spank   Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:13 pm

Erulissė wrote:
Finish this analogy:

Kids are people. Hitting people is wrong. Hitting kids is _______

study

To my complete disgust I actually agree with you m'dear little mental midget. Hitting children to teach them that hitting is wrong is counterproductive.
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krystineM

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PostSubject: Re: To Spank or Not to Spank   Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:09 pm

it depends on how hard you hit the child. it is not abuse, shows no signs of trama unless your using like all force, hitting in the face and leaving visible marks. Which none happen because of diapers which give a light smack or a slap on the wrist, which is not hard enough to actually hurt but a child crys anyways for the attention.
When it comes to a certain age there should be something done about it because then, it could and can be classed as abuse. Have any of you been smacked as a young kid, not like 17 or older, im sure you were given a light smack on the bum or hand and was there any physical or mental trama done to you? i dont think so.
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PostSubject: Re: To Spank or Not to Spank   Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:55 pm

In my opinion, spanking is wrong no matter what the circumstances are. I have never, ever hit my DD. Her pediatrician told us his views on spanking, when she was just born and we asked, and he agreed it was NEVER acceptable. Mainly for the reasons others have said, that it only teaches violence. It doesn't help anything. It also teaches your child to be afraid of you.
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PostSubject: Re: To Spank or Not to Spank   Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:07 pm

futureshock wrote:
In my opinion, spanking is wrong no matter what the circumstances are. I have never, ever hit my DD. Her pediatrician told us his views on spanking, when she was just born and we asked, and he agreed it was NEVER acceptable. Mainly for the reasons others have said, that it only teaches violence. It doesn't help anything. It also teaches your child to be afraid of you.

mm not necessararily, again its what your spanking for, i mean your not going to hit your kid over spilt milk, or dressing themselves backwards because then that can lead to violent behaviour. But when a child has thrown a tempertantrum in the store or is throwing things all over the place, and after more than one try of telling the child to stop, a slight smack on the wrist assures they have your attention and to stop what their doing and listen. And is less likely to throw a fit again after getting a little smack. Again how much force are they using, when is the spank being given, over any little thing, or a matter of stopping the bad behaviour and listening attentively.

I dont see anything bad or wrong about it, unless our punching a child or smacking them with full force.
Toddlers who recieve a slight smack have a pull-up on anyways if they get a smack on the bum, its just to get them to listen and stop misbehaving, and again a light smack on the wrist, i dont see too much violent behaviour or trama due to smacking a child.
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PostSubject: Re: To Spank or Not to Spank   Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:52 pm

Kids are not little adults. They are kids and process things differently.

It's so ridiculous the extent of justification people will go through in order to prove that hitting a child is an okay thing to do.

Quote :
Have any of you been smacked as a young kid, not like 17 or older, im sure you were given a light smack on the bum or hand and was there any physical or mental trama done to you? i dont think so.

If your parents did it, it's okay to do?

Quote :
mm not necessararily, again its what your spanking for, i mean your not going to hit your kid over spilt milk, or dressing themselves backwards because then that can lead to violent behaviour. But when a child has thrown a tempertantrum in the store or is throwing things all over the place, and after more than one try of telling the child to stop, a slight smack on the wrist assures they have your attention and to stop what their doing and listen.


Would you hit your fiance if he didn't listen to you?

Why not?

Because he is an adult?

So what? He's more likely to process why you are hitting him than a child.

So why not hit your fiance?

Because he can hit back? Because he isn't helpless and completely submissive?

If you hit an adult, it's called assault. If you hit your own kid, it's called spanking.
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PostSubject: Re: To Spank or Not to Spank   Fri Mar 14, 2008 2:06 am

krystineM wrote:
futureshock wrote:
In my opinion, spanking is wrong no matter what the circumstances are. I have never, ever hit my DD. Her pediatrician told us his views on spanking, when she was just born and we asked, and he agreed it was NEVER acceptable. Mainly for the reasons others have said, that it only teaches violence. It doesn't help anything. It also teaches your child to be afraid of you.

mm not necessararily,


Not necessarily what? There were lots of sentences in there, which exactly are you addressing?
Quote :

again its what your spanking for, i mean your not going to hit your kid over spilt milk, or dressing themselves backwards because then that can lead to violent behaviour. But when a child has thrown a tempertantrum in the store or is throwing things all over the place, and after more than one try of telling the child to stop, a slight smack on the wrist assures they have your attention and to stop what their doing and listen.
You have obviously never been with a child throwing a temper tantrum. No slight smack on the wrist is going to stop them from what they are doing and have them listen. You seem to think that they are in control of themselves and are able to make that connection-pain from slap on wrist=stop my tantrum. It doesn't work that way, not even close.
Quote :

And is less likely to throw a fit again after getting a little smack. Again how much force are they using, when is the spank being given, over any little thing, or a matter of stopping the bad behaviour and listening attentively.
This whole conversation makes me uncomfortable because it shows a lack of compassion and love for the child, and also an ignorance about how their little brains function. The only correct thing to do in this situation is to take your child out of the situation. If you are in a store, you pick your child up and you leave. You take the child out to the car and sit quietly until he or she calms down. VIOLENCE, in the middle of a tantrum, is like throwing gasoline on a fire.
Quote :

I dont see anything bad or wrong about it, unless our punching a child or smacking them with full force.
Toddlers who recieve a slight smack have a pull-up on anyways if they get a smack on the bum, its just to get them to listen and stop misbehaving, and again a light smack on the wrist, i dont see too much violent behaviour or trama due to smacking a child.

People who say things like this are glossing over the whole point. Now you sound like you are giving them a gentle pat, and not inflicting pain. Which is it?
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PostSubject: Re: To Spank or Not to Spank   Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:20 am

Erulissė no i would not hit my fiance if he didnt listen to me, are you kidding?

futureshock, i get your point too, it does sound like a lack of patience when you hit a kid for misbehaving.
and no i dont think that after one smack they will stop whatever they are doing, but in my experience of seeing some kids i used to baby sit and how their parents raised them, one light smack made them stop faster than 5 or 8 times of being told stop.
And yeah your 100% right, and is something i would most definately do if my child acts up, turn right around and go back home and explain why we left the store or wherever we were, my mom did that with me and my 2 brothers and after a few times of that happening, we learned it we did something bad or did not listen we would be taken back home.

But when i said a gentle pat, you are not going to inflict so much pain on a child where it leaves a mark, because then that woud be more towards child abuse.
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PostSubject: Re: To Spank or Not to Spank   Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:51 pm

krystineM wrote:
Erulissė no i would not hit my fiance if he didnt listen to me, are you kidding?

Why not? Seriously...just humor me.

krystineM wrote:
futureshock, i get your point too, it does sound like a lack of patience when you hit a kid for misbehaving.
and no i dont think that after one smack they will stop whatever they are doing, but in my experience of seeing some kids i used to baby sit and how their parents raised them, one light smack made them stop faster than 5 or 8 times of being told stop.

Why do you think that is?
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PostSubject: Re: To Spank or Not to Spank   Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:54 pm

an adult has more common sense to stop something when someone says stop than a child who thinks its a game when their told to stop something. Are you really serious with what you've asked? or are you just asking this for fun..
It is common sense, would you hit your parent if they were doing something wrong or annoying you?
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PostSubject: Re: To Spank or Not to Spank   Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:58 pm

krystineM wrote:
an adult has more common sense to stop something when someone says stop than a child who thinks its a game when their told to stop something. Are you really serious with what you've asked? or are you just asking this for fun..
It is common sense, would you hit your parent if they were doing something wrong or annoying you?

You would treat your boyfriend with more respect than you'd treat your children? Might I suggest you read some parenting books and get some real life experience before you start dishing out parenting advice on whether or not spanking is appropriate punishment. You clearly have no clue.
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PostSubject: Re: To Spank or Not to Spank   Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:40 pm

So you would NOT hit a grown man who has the knowledge to understand exactly what he is doing wrong but you would hit a child with a lower level of intelligence WITHOUT the ability to understand the situation. Way to sound intelligent. Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: To Spank or Not to Spank   Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:54 am

krystineM wrote:
an adult has more common sense to stop something when someone says stop than a child who thinks its a game when their told to stop something. Are you really serious with what you've asked? or are you just asking this for fun..
It is common sense, would you hit your parent if they were doing something wrong or annoying you?

Yes, I am as serious about not hitting people as you are about defending it.

It is common sense that you don't hit anyone. I don't know why you would so strongly defend hitting people.

When your baby is born, look at him/her. Think about hitting them. Could you ever imagine doing such a thing? How terrible! Make that feeling stick with you when they grow older.

There are alternatives to physical violence. Seek them out; what do you have to lose?
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PostSubject: Re: To Spank or Not to Spank   Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:23 am

and im pretty sure i stated them when i replyed.
saying i would remove my child from a situation where he or she is acting up. did i not.
and explain why i did that.
next time finish reading what i wrote then reply.
you pretty much said exactaly what i said i would do.

"There are alternatives to physical violence. Seek them out; what do you have to lose?"

I explained what i would do instead of violence.
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PostSubject: Re: To Spank or Not to Spank   Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:55 pm

krystineM wrote:
and im pretty sure i stated them when i replyed.
saying i would remove my child from a situation where he or she is acting up. did i not.
and explain why i did that.
next time finish reading what i wrote then reply.
you pretty much said exactaly what i said i would do.

"There are alternatives to physical violence. Seek them out; what do you have to lose?"

I explained what i would do instead of violence.

Please point out exactly where you said you would redirect instead of giving a smack on the bum.
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Erulissė



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PostSubject: Re: To Spank or Not to Spank   Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:43 pm

krystineM wrote:
and im pretty sure i stated them when i replyed.
saying i would remove my child from a situation where he or she is acting up. did i not.
and explain why i did that.
next time finish reading what i wrote then reply.
you pretty much said exactaly what i said i would do.

"There are alternatives to physical violence. Seek them out; what do you have to lose?"

I explained what i would do instead of violence.

Good Christ almighty, I hope you raise your kid better than you were.

You never said any of that stuff; you've just been working on justifying why it's okay to hit people smaller than you.

It's kind of funny - you are super snotty and completely wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: To Spank or Not to Spank   Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:50 pm

[quote="krystineM"]

futureshock, i get your point too, it does sound like a lack of patience when you hit a kid for misbehaving.
and no i dont think that after one smack they will stop whatever they are doing, but in my experience of seeing some kids i used to baby sit and how their parents raised them, one light smack made them stop faster than 5 or 8 times of being told stop.
And yeah your 100% right, and is something i would most definately do if my child acts up, turn right around and go back home and explain why we left the store or wherever we were, my mom did that with me and my 2 brothers and after a few times of that happening, we learned it we did something bad or did not listen we would be taken back home.

quote]

the part i bolded is where i said i would choose that instead of resort to a smack juryofone and Erulissė
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PostSubject: Re: To Spank or Not to Spank   Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:23 am

[quote="krystineM"]
krystineM wrote:


futureshock, i get your point too, it does sound like a lack of patience when you hit a kid for misbehaving.
and no i dont think that after one smack they will stop whatever they are doing, but in my experience of seeing some kids i used to baby sit and how their parents raised them, one light smack made them stop faster than 5 or 8 times of being told stop.
And yeah your 100% right, and is something i would most definately do if my child acts up, turn right around and go back home and explain why we left the store or wherever we were, my mom did that with me and my 2 brothers and after a few times of that happening, we learned it we did something bad or did not listen we would be taken back home.

quote]

the part i bolded is where i said i would choose that instead of resort to a smack juryofone and Erulissė

I didn't see that earlier. And I don't believe it.
You've sat there and talked about how hitting kids is an okay thing to do, so why change tactics? We all know you're going to be one of those trashy women with a boyfriend twice your age strolling the mall for hooker clothes and your kid gets away from you and you're loud and you smack 'em hard "for their own good". When they cry you'll threaten them with hitting them again to make them stop. Just a theory.

Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: To Spank or Not to Spank   Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:48 pm

[quote="Erulissė"]
krystineM wrote:
krystineM wrote:


futureshock, i get your point too, it does sound like a lack of patience when you hit a kid for misbehaving.
and no i dont think that after one smack they will stop whatever they are doing, but in my experience of seeing some kids i used to baby sit and how their parents raised them, one light smack made them stop faster than 5 or 8 times of being told stop.
And yeah your 100% right, and is something i would most definately do if my child acts up, turn right around and go back home and explain why we left the store or wherever we were, my mom did that with me and my 2 brothers and after a few times of that happening, we learned it we did something bad or did not listen we would be taken back home.

quote]

the part i bolded is where i said i would choose that instead of resort to a smack juryofone and Erulissė

I didn't see that earlier. And I don't believe it.
You've sat there and talked about how hitting kids is an okay thing to do, so why change tactics? We all know you're going to be one of those trashy women with a boyfriend twice your age strolling the mall for hooker clothes and your kid gets away from you and you're loud and you smack 'em hard "for their own good". When they cry you'll threaten them with hitting them again to make them stop. Just a theory.

Rolling Eyes

Do not assume that that will be the way i raise my kid.
i am not some hooker with an older fiance. and i would not met my child out of my sight in a busy mall.
I have said hitting is yes ok to do, but it is not something i would do every time my child is acting up. If he or she spills milk, im not gonna give them a smack. if we're in a mall and acts up i said i would remove him or her and explain why. Go back a page and read where i said that. You obviously have not been reading what i say properly.
I would not "stroll the mall" for hooker clothes, because that is not a style im in to, and would not want my daughter [if i have a daughter] to follow suit.
I am not trashy, and not going to be a bad parent. so do not predict that is the way i will be when i have my child.
I would not hit my child to stop him or her from crying, because that would only make them cry more OBVIOUSLY!
my god.
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PostSubject: Re: To Spank or Not to Spank   Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:20 pm

So when would you hit your child?
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PostSubject: Re: To Spank or Not to Spank   Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:28 pm

When she feels like it apparently. How any one could do so in ANY situation is beyond me.

Krystine, you need to get a grip. maybe you should be smacked around a bit? You could use the lesson in life.
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